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Handspring screws up Treo 650 bluetooth

well, they had every chance to get this right, but they didn't: the Handspring Treo 650 does NOT work with Bluetooth car systems, even though it supposedly implements the Handsfree Bluetooth profile necessary for that task.

I continue to be amazed at the people that email me every day who really really want to get their phone working with their Bluetooth enabled car, but insist on staying with Sprint or Verizon until they release a phone that will work, but Bluetooth phone (V710) after Bluetooth phone (Treo 650, Windows Mobile phones) the CDMA operators just don't get it.

Sony Ericsson P910i works with HandsFreeLink

because this is somewhat big news, i'm crossposting from my other weblog

Many readers have been writing to ask if the P910 would support the Handsfree Blutooth profile, and thus work with the Acura TL HandsFreeLink.

The answer is, it DOES support the Handsfree profile, and does work with the Acura TL, with a few caveats:

• after pairing, you have to turn bluetooth on the P910 on and off to get it to connect
• i had to manually connect to HFL as in the pictures above - it didn't seem to connect automatically when i got in the car
• when making a phone call, the P910 did automatically connect and prompted me to transfer to HFL as in the screenshot above
• the P910 DOES NOT send battery strength and signal strength to the instrument panel

i know the next question from many folks will be "Is Sony Ericsson going to provide an upgrade for my P900?" and my answer is "I have no idea, but they don't seem to look back, so I doubt it."

Other than that - a few notes on the phone - it's not terribly different from the P900. the only differences i see are

• a more complete Java MIDP 2.0 implementation


• some new icons in the default theme


• memory stick PRO - you cann now expand to 1GIG of memory


• oh, yeah, the keyboard. I mostly didn't know it was there. can you hold the phone by the keypad with two hands and type? not really. you can. it's sturday enough - but the keyboard is small. i was more successful one hand typing with my thumb like traditional texting. it was hard when i had to use the Shift key, which was often.

acura RL with handsfree link

acura has announced their second car with handsfree link capability,the RL prototype.

this car has some neat technology. in addition to HFL, it integrates real time traffic updates to the navigation system. the traffic information is transmitted via the XM radio satellites, and shows congestion on the navigation screen. then presumably, you can find an alternate route.

HandsFreeLink Compatibility

I've created this entry as a living test document for which bluetooth phones work with Acura HandsFreeLink (HFL). You should also refer to these 2 entries for more information. 1, 2.

These are based on my tests. If any readers have tested other phones, please add a comment and i'll update this entry.

Phones that work with HFL
These phones implement the Handsfree BT profile and work as designed.

Sony Ericsson T68i
Sony Ericsson T610 (my pick)
Sony Ericsson T630
Nokia N-Gage
Nokia 3650
Nokia 6230 (my pick)

Phones that should work but do not
These phones implement the Handsfree BT profile, but do not work. They have the potential to work with newer firmware.

Motorola V600 ( this phone partially works, using the "Transfer" function)
Nokia 6600 (firmware 1.42)
Panasonic X11
Panasonic X70

Phones that will not work with HFL
These phones are bluetooth enabled, but do not implement the BT Handsfree profile. Someone (hopefully Honda) needs to put pressure on Sony Ericsson product management to add this BT profile to these phones. I have talked to Sony Ericsson about it and they say they need a "business case". To me, people not buying their phones because they are incompatible with the cars from Honda and Toyota that are emerging would be a "business case".

Sony Ericsson P800
Sony Ericsson P900

wow, bluetooth car owners starting to get really pissed off at Sony Ericsson

as more and more bluetooth phones are entering the market, and more and more bluetooth cars are entering the market - consumers are starting to see the writing on the wall as to the incompatibilities that result from devices not supporting both the "handsfree" AND "headset" bluetooth profiles.

i've kind of shook my head in just *another* example of a device manufacturer leaving out *one critical feature* for their flagship devices. how can anyone be surprised?

those who have done a lot of reseach and layed down $800 for their P900 to work with their bluetooth car are rightly starting to get pissed. i do this stuff for a living, but how can the average consumer know about the intricacies of bluetooth profiles? they shouldn't have to! duh!

this expansys forum shows some users getting pissed off, for lack of a better term in the (american) english language:

http://www.expansys.at/forumthread.asp?code=107853&thread=134

all handsfreelink postings:

acura handsfreelink category

turns out P900 doesn't work with any bluetooth car systems

i have posted a few times 1, 2 on the lack of blutooth "handsfree" profile on the P900 (and the P800), making it incompatible with the acura HandsFreeLink system. it turns out it is also not compatible with the Lexus system or the aftermarket BMW kits.

the following is a discussion posted from "behind closed doors" in the sony ericsson developer forum - which requires registration... it though this would be a good public place to continue the discussion. if you want Sony Ericsson to "stop the madness" and add this BT profile to the P900 contact them here and tell them: "add the bluetooth handsfree profile to the P900" - maybe they'll listen.

--------------------------

Author: 
airactivist

Date: 
21-Nov-2003 22:26 GMT EST

Subject:
Bluetooth HFP for the P900

Message:     
I could be barking up the wrong technical tree here, however, here it goes. Is
there any possibilty of a "firmware upgrade" to your new SonyEricsson P900
Bluetooth profile, to enable the phone to communicate with a hands free device?
Meaning, is it even technically possible for the P900 in the future to be
upgraded so the Bluetooth communication therein contains the "HFP", or "hands
free profile"? Or...is it static, and never alterable? Thank you so very much
for your reply. The P900 is the ultimate "smartphone", and it`s a curious
omission that the phone does not have the "hands free profile" in the Bluetooth
protocol, considering two far less expensive and technically advanced phones,
the Sony Ericsson T610, and T616, both have it. I appreciate immensely your
reply. Thank you.

Author: 
Sony Ericsson Developer Support

Date: 
24-Nov-2003 16:20 GMT EST

Subject:
re: Bluetooth HFP for the P900

Message:     
Let me see what I can find out.

Jim
Sony Ericsson Developer SUpport

Author: 
airactivist

Date: 
24-Nov-2003 16:43 GMT EST

Subject:
re: Bluetooth HFP for the P900

Message:     
Thank you so very much, Jim. I can`t tell you how much I want to get this item,
save for the answer to this perplexing question.

Your response is greatly
appreciated.

Author: 
jgreen

Date: 
03-Dec-2003 12:21 GMT EST

Subject:
re: Bluetooth HFP for the P900

Message:     
Hi,

Jim handed this one off to me for some technical input. My apologies for
the delayed response but I`ve been "on the road" with a Symbian Developer Event.
..

I promise you that I will be pressing the P800 and P900 product teams
for hints about future plans, but for the moment the best I can do is to
confirm that (as you`ve already noted) the Hands Free Profile isn`t currently
supported.

Watch this space...

Regards,
Jonathon,
Sony Ericsson
Developer Support

Author: 
airactivist

Date: 
03-Dec-2003 14:55 GMT EST

Subject:
re: Bluetooth HFP for the P900

Message:     
Thank you, Jonathon.

Of all of the "smartphones" in the crowded marketplace,
the P900`s brilliant screen, fantastic RF reception, flawless UI and just flat
out "coolness" makes it a "must have" item....except for the lack of the "hands
free profile".

Sadly, I had to return this bedazzling piece of modern
technology back to the vendor after discovering the P900 didn't support the HFP,
because, I own a car equipped with Bluetooth HFP access via its voice
activiated touch screen DVD based navigation/sound system.

This enables a
user with a mobile phone with the HFP to handshake seamlessly to a DVD data
base of over 4,000,000 + phone numbers, which can be dialed via voice command,
and then conversed with hands free through the sound system. All completely
integrated.

My guess would be that while seemingly unique now, this type of
interface will be quite common in the coming months, and indeed will become the
proverbial "killer ap" that will not only sell many phones so equipped with the
HFP, but many automobiles built this way as well.

I'll be monitoring this
forum continually hoping for news that the HFP can be either added via some
sort of upgrade to the P900, or will be soon featured on a similar model, such
as the "P1000".

Thank you so very much, once again, for your response.

Author: 
jgreen

Date: 
03-Dec-2003 15:33 GMT EST

Subject:
re: Bluetooth HFP for the P900

Message:     
Hi again.

I can certainly understand your distress. In a previous existence I
was involved in the development of the P800 and had access to development
units well before the final product was released to the marketplace. When the
project came to a conclusion I was so distressed at having to return my
development handset that when product appeared in the shops I actually bought
one with my own money, and if I`d subsequently found that it was incompatible
with my cars onboard Bluetooth facilities I`d have been inconsolable...

Anyway, for future reference (and for the benefit of other interested parties)
I've now had a further response from my contacts within the product development
team. If a solid business case is established for the Bluetooth HFP (Hands Free
Profile), it may be implemented, and if it does it will be announced to the
developer community (and other interested parties) through the usual channels.

You may yet be able to reconcile your taste in cars with your taste in
'phones, and you may not have to wait for a hypothetical P1000 to do it!

--

Regards
Jonathon,
Sony Ericsson Developer Support

Author: 
steveobd

Date: 
09-Dec-2003 04:57 GMT EST

Subject:
re: Bluetooth HFP for the P900

Message:     
i second the motion for the "handsfree profile" in the p900 - it`s a huge
omission in my mind. i'm sure it's driving Honda of America (Acura) crazy as
they advertise the Acura TL HandsfreeLink as working with "Bluetooth compatible
phones" - only to have to qualify that with "that implement the handsfree
profile, and oh by the way that doesn't include the SE p800 or the p900". the
business case for SE should be if they don't put this in their best in class
phones and nokia does (and they have, all the latest nokia phones implement
HFP) the car companies are going to start telling the people buying their cars
to stay away from SE phones. most of the people buying bluetooth enabled cars
*right now* are probably making a new phone choice based on buying the car, not
the other way around. so anyway, forward that to the p900 product manager.

my question is - is it possible for one of us developers to implement this as a
BT add on or is it lower level than that?

Author: 
Sony Ericsson Developer Support

Date: 
16-Dec-2003 18:57 GMT EST

Subject:
re: Bluetooth HFP for the P900

Message:     
Steve,

Message received. I`ll pass it in as an emphatic suggestion.

I
don't know if it's possible to add a BT profile. I suspect it is lower level
than what is accessible to application-level developers.

Jim
Sony Ericsson
Developer Support

Author: 
rbousque

Date: 
18-Dec-2003 12:15 GMT EST

Subject:
re: Bluetooth HFP for the P900

Message:     
Hello, i was looking for this "extremely sad" answer for a while !

Here same
problem in Europe, P900 not working neither with BMW 330d bluetooth kit and,
more surprisingly, nor with Nokia car kit CARK-1W whereas my previous phone
Nokia 6310i is working perfectly.

Here in my company each person is willing
to use this device with hands free system in his car since any new now has this
kind of BT connection instead of fixed one dedicated to a particular phone.

Waiting for a next firmware release, can you confirm that with your own SE car
kit HCB-30, hands free is working with P900 ?

Can buy a new hands free car
kit .. !

Author: 
yavery

Date: 
23-Dec-2003 03:38 GMT EST

Subject:
re: Bluetooth HFP for the P900

Message:     
I second the motion too...

Handsfree profile is realy a MUST.

I`ve been
looking around in the SDK (c++ and java), and there doesn`t seem to be any way
to acquire the underling communication channel of an existing voice call (etel
model).

This seem to be possible over a data call,but not voice.

At first,
I was thinking of developping this add-on profile myself, since the bluetooth
part isn`t too complicated. Where the challenge resides is in building a SCO
over the voice data stream .. Anyways, I'm out
of ideas on this, so I'm
throwing the towel.

Will definitely be waiting on SE's implementation...
soon, hopefully.

Thanks for taking this issue as a priority!

Author: 
HankSz

Date: 
27-Feb-2004 21:26 GMT EST

Subject:
re: Bluetooth HFP for the P900

Message:     
Well, I guess you can add me to the list of the disappointed! When I bought my
new Lexus LX 470 and discovered it had a bluetooth interface for the phone /
navigation system, my first thought was `what phone / pda units support
bluetooth on Verizonwireless'. It didn't take long to find that there are none
(yet - they say the Treo 610 will), and that I would need to change carriers to
use GSM bluetooth units. After much research and many recommendations such as
(SE invented Bluetooth, there units are the best choice), and already owning
many Sony products, I tried a T616 and it worked great with my new Lexus, as I
expected it would. The next step was to locate the unit that had the extra
power / capabilities I needed and the P800 and P900 popped to the top of the
list. All the recommendations were to get the P900, so I found a dealer that
had them and paid a premium price to get it here. I initially paired it with my
G4 Powerbook and got everything from my Motorola T720 and Palm i705 transferred
into it perfectly! I then took the unit to my car and tried to pair it. The
P900 recognized the Lexus, but the Lexus just sat there... I don't need to say
how disappointed I was at that moment. To further aggravate the situation, I
was just told by two of your tech support people that this deficiency in your
bluetooth implementation (not supporting the Hands Free Profile, may never be
corrected. They did however say I could try back in a week or two to see if
there were any further developments. It seems to make good business sense for
SE to address this issue since the P900 is a great fit for the people who buy
the Lexus, Acura, BMW, and other cars that use this bluetooth HFP. These same
car units are even showing up in the not so high end cars like the Toyota Prius.

Also, my company develops solutions for portable devices such as Palm, and
J2ME devices. The P900 is a definite contender for some existing and new
business applications we develop.

I would really like to know if there is a
plan to release a fix for the P900 in the near future (in which case I will
hang in there), or if I should look elsewhere for a solution.

Thanks.

sniffin' the bluetooth TL

because of all the confusion some people are having looking for phones they know work with the acura tl handsfreelink system - i decided to help them out by taking a look at what bluetooth profiles the TL *really* supports.

ben hui, with whom i used to work, has created a great freeware bluetooth browser (which is more of a sniffer) which was great for this task. thanks ben!

the profiles

you can see here the HFL supports Handsfree, OBEX Object Push, and OBEX FileTransfer. so that's why the P800 and P900 won't work with HFL, they only support the "Headset" profile.

here's some more of the details:

so i find it interesting that HFL also supports OBEX Object Push and OBEX FileTransfer. I wonder what you could do with that. perhaps that's just used to pass along some of the meta information like the phone's battery level and such.

one thing i think would be cool is to have text messages get pushed to the screen as they come in on the phone. i'll have to look into writing that.